There is a new bot on Craigslist today mass mailing people.
If you get any messages, especially from your Craig’s List posting, from a Cliff Halliday with an e-mail address of vicktadeo@hotmail.com, then it’s spam, so delete it :)
Here are some other names and e-mail addresses I believe are being used for spam on Craigs List:
facebuffo@hotmail.com (thanks ktina!)
Shannon Popp – marcystoress45@gmail.com
Chris Bolcato – reality_check_27@yahoo.com
Update (12/30) - There seems to be some new spam regarding Cliff Halliday and something to do with the “CEO” of Craigslist – this is also spam! Hope this helps.
Please tell others about your spam message in the comments to help identify these threats / annoyances :)
I also received a message from “Cliff Halliday” on a reply from craigslist (today, 12/23/2010) only the email address was facebuffo at hotmail.com
I really appreciate being able to paste the word “craigslist” and the email address I receive messages from into a search engine and find others’ posts like this one –thanks Will!
just got this, looks like he changed his email
I too got one today. I always check Google and FB to see who these folks are. Would any of you like to tell us what sort of spamming the guy is doing? Thanks.
Here are 2 more e-mails that I recieved from this guy
Cliff Halliday <TuiteTrol@hotmail.com
Cliff Halliday <BukhariBulo@hotmail.com
I also received a spam email from Cliff Halliday, and the email address used was chihshunchen1962@hotmail.com
and received another one from him with the email address
tonezbpHLCEZ@hotmail.com
I received both these emails on 12/28/10
I recieved a message from “Cliff halliday” on a reply from Claigslist today as well.the e-mail address was wu28pintai at hotmail.com.
I think this spammer is a Baseball fan,especially Phillies(Cliff Lee& Roy Halliday).
I also received a message from
By the way Cliff claims to be the CEO of Craigslist.
Got three from Cliff Halliday today 12-28-2010
They are yu28yung@hotmail.com
wakehacking1@hotmail.com
chaibadini@hotmail.com
He claims he is CEO at craiglist & I won an apple I pad ……..
I got one too… I included the name, e-mail address, and content below:
From: Cliff Halliday
Are you currently sfearching?
hmmm the e-mail address didn’t show, I’ll try again:
From: Cliff Halliday
From: Cliff Halliday harislyqj at hotmail
I got 2 emails today from “Cliff Halliday” one had the email: dunsegala@hotmail.com and the other: huiyulan2012@hotmail.com
Thanks for the info!!!
Just received an email response to my Craigslist posting from Cliff Halliday (skiffingtoncskq at hotmail.com) and the entire message was “‘m I llooking at the correct ad? “.
It looked suspicious so I Googled him. Thanks for the heads up!
I just got one from septducelike@hotmail.com and the message was “this cjan not be correct?”
I also received a message from “Cliff Halliday” on a reply from Craigslist (today 12/29/10) only the email address was StratosShort@hotmail.com.
I also received an email from Cliff Halliday using this email address: Cliff Halliday <ChufkdIOUUZX@hotmail.com
Also Basultosch@hotmail.com uses the Cliff Halliday pseudonym. Thanks for bringing this to my attention.
I got a Cliff Halliday reply on Craigslist today – 12/29/10. The email address was SchottTo@yahoo.com
Received an email from “Cliff Halliday” using email “borisgtc@hotmail.com
got one today from Cliff Haliday at “Cliff Halliday” <Billonvjw@hotmail.com
also getting responses to my ads for housing wanted…from people who only write one sentence like hello. (there is always a period somewhere) my tenant moved out need a place? it's always very short and sweet but i know it's a troll!
i got an email from a Cliff Halliday and i thought have to be a spammer, is using this email address : chuehi2039@hotmail.com
be careful you’all
Happy New Year
BaezAlvearWa@hotmail.com
From 12/29. Cliff just can’t collect enough e-mail addresses.
I got an illiterate email response to my craigslist ad from Cliff Halliday email was
Cliff Halliday [starkweathernei@hotmail.com]
Mine was from Cliff Halliday” <LuxMegginson@hotmail.com
I got one too today. The 2nd email came from a different email address, asking me for my email identity. Luckily my spamarrest.com caught it and they don’t know my real email address.
Emails today from:
Cliff Halliday
Cliff Halliday
Thanks for the posts!
I just got a response (the only one in a week in fact) from “Cliff Halliday” (VelezEngl1@hotmail.com) to a ‘housing wanted’ ad stating simply:
any kyind of connections produced so far?
Because of the level of fraud and scams that cl postings are attracting these days, I have taken to inspecting the message headers (an advanced mail user skill not easily explained to the uninitiated) as a first step in determining weather I am getting a message from a bot. In this case, the message originated in china based on the IP address that hotmail reported receiving the message from for delivery by their web interface. I am sorry, nobody in china can possibly be for real or legitimate in this context. I also say it failed the smell test because a real respondent would actually have something contextual to say, whereas a bot just scans and mails blindly.
WHY is cl captcha failing so badly?
WHY can’t cl filter better?
I got an email from this “cliff halliday” as well. It came from the address “chuhsuanchiehr@hotmail.com”.
I too am glad that this site has posted a warning…also glad I even bothered to check up on it. Rad.
I just got an email from Cliff…. CEO of Craigslist….will this crap never end??
Cliff emailed me from blacksmithjal@hotmail.com
Just got the same email, different address.
Delete.
Got one of these myself today, using the address fanningaurkm@hotmail.com.
I rec’d a message from this Cliff Halliday after listing something for sale. . He said I wom an $800. ipod. Because I saw this warning after googling his name, I realized it was a hoax. Thanks everyone. We don’t need these creeps.
I just got one from a Cliff Halliday as well regarding a house rental. The email used was yan2027chan@hotmail.com
I’ve never googled a craigslist reply but for some reason it seemed phony. Glad I did.
I received one from “Cliff Halliday” today and the email was WielandMixon@hotmail.com.
I also received something from “Cliff Halliday” today. First I got an email responding to my post for a house I am renting out. It just said “Anything I can improve on?” I have a neighbor named Cliff who does home renovation, so I thought it was him and emailed back (unfortunately) Then I got another email with what clearly looked like a scam about winning an Ipad. I deleted both messages and blocked the sender. Hoping I didn’t do something dangerous by mistakenly replying to the first email.
Cliff Halliday” Just got this today!
I received a response to a rental posting on CL from a “Cliff Halliday [HowittDa@hotmail.com]” with the message: “any specifxic conditions?”
I replied thinking it was a legitimate inquiry. I quickly received this response from “Cliff Halliday ” that read:
Attention C-list User,
My name is Cliff Halliday, Ceo of Craigslist. We have recently partnered up with Apple company regarding a one-time promotional event today, we are giving away complimentary Apple iPads to randomly selected folks who have published an advert on Craig’s list. You have been chosen as one of our latest winners for today. We randomly choose numbers to match up with ads on Cl and your advertisement matched with our latest drawing.
We have partnered up with Apple to advertise their hottest product yet, the Apple iPad. Once yet again, we are running this campaign for one-day only. All you need to do is CLICK HERE to check out our web site made for this promotion and type in your email to obtain yours for free. Just make sure you enter your email so we can locate our records to guarantee that we have reserved one for you. That is it!
Congratulations on winning a free Apple iPad (valued at $800). In case you have any query or concerns, feel free to email me back. However, you need to claim your free iPad 1st to ensure one will be reserved for you before the deadline ends. We do understand that you may not receive this e-mail until after the deadline, but, we suggest you check out the website and enter your email to see if we still have yours on hold, which we often-times do because others have not claimed theirs in time.
Cliff Halliday
CEO, Craig’s list
Below this message was 2 other response from other people.
Thanks for posting about this latest spam. I hope my update helps others.
Bryan
Chicago, IL
12/31/2010 – I got a dumb question from Cliff Halliday regarding my posting on Craigslist. The question (and the entire email) was: “Whebn I read it is not very straightforward?”
I also got an email from Cliff Halliday his email was tried2046@hotmail.com regarding winning a free apple ipad and i have won.
got an email answer promising a ipad from craig h. helmlywxu@hotmail.com
egad
I also received one from Cliff Halliday today 1/1/11 from email ipo0301@hotmail.com
I am definitely thinking it’s spam.
Here’s the exact message that I received today:
Attention Craig’s list User,
My name is Cliff Halliday, Ceo of Craigslist. We have recently partnered up with Apple mackintosh regarding a one-time promotional event today, we are giving away no cost Apple iPads to randomly selected people who have published an advert on Craigslist. You have been chosen as one of our newest winners for today. We randomly select numbers to match up with ads on Cl and your advertisement matched with our latest drawing.
We have partnered up with Apple to advertise their most popular product yet, the Apple iPad. Once yet again, we are running this promotion for one-day only. All you need to do is CLICK HERE to visit our website made for this promotion and enter your email to recieve yours for free. Simply make sure you enter your email so we can locate our records to guarantee that we have reserved one for you. That’s it!
Congrats on winning a free Apple iPad (valued at $800). In case you have any query or concerns, feel free to email me back. However, you need to claim your free iPad first to ensure one will be reserved for you before the deadline ends. We do understand that you may not receive this email until after the deadline, however, we advise you check out the site and enter your email to see if we still have yours on hold, which we often-times do because others haven’t claimed theirs in time.
Cliff Halliday
CEO, Craig’s list
A little further, It came from this email address: sung88hsiaohsing@hotmail.com. The email was in response to one of my postings. Hope this helps.
I received a message from Cliff Halliday (decistup445577@hotmail.com), which was spam.
Yes recieved a false request for my phone number in a real estate listing. “Hello. Let’s talk. Wchen to call up? ” so I gave him my cell. I have now deleated it. will look out for any other fake e-mail this crimial creates.
I just received an e-mail from Cliff Halliday concerning my real estate listing on Craigs list. He asked if he could contact me immediately and I sent him my phone #’s. Hope I didn’t make a mistake!
i got an email from this address
I got an email from this address
lingyungyuehng@hotmail.com
I posted in the classifieds, looking for roommates. I’ve gotten replies from “Cliff Halliday” using different email addresses, but the same name for every single Ad I placed. I haven’t replied to them, because quite clearly it was spam. But all the same, it’s very, very irritating that there are people who have nothing to do but prey on others for a life.
I guess I should have included the email addresses for “Cliff Halliday”
email addresses for “Cliff Halliday”
withducteer1996@hotmail.com
medozaqp@hotmail.com
nottsic@hotmail.com
Another_____Cliff Halliday
I just received a message from a “Cliff Halliday” 1-2-11 inquiring about my Super Bowl rental. The e-mail address was antonettiyo@hotmail.com. Guess its a spam/scam as well! Thanks, Ive already been scamed once!
Cliff Halliday wrote from macrodictlet@hotmail.com, saying, “Hi there. Afre you currently close to my pin code?” With the typo, I am wondering if it is actually a bot. Of course output is only good as its input.
I got an email from this joker too! He claims to be CEO of craigslist, said I won an iPod all I had to do was go to a site and input my email. Nothing doing!
I got one today and the email address is: Cliff Halliday shonhlfk@hotmail.com
Here’s Another from Cliff Halliday. Thanks for the HeadsUp.
tsengjenting777@hotmail.com
here’s another Cliff email address: hemiless2007@hotmail.com
GOT THIS TODAY 1/3/11
Cliff Halliday – ruptsome598@hotmail.com & perman1954ment@hotmail.com
SPAM IT !!
and another one from craigslist by Cliff Halliday: srivastavayosz@hotmail.com
I received a Craigslist reply email from Cliff Halliday (chapei55@hotmail.com). The email message was simply:
“Do you have day time cell phone numbefr?”
But I had provided my cell number in the ad, so it tipped me off.
Thanks for this blog!
I got one today in response to an add I posted. Their initial response to my ad was:
“[Do you have FAeQs for it][?]”
I responded as I thought they misunderstood my ad. Their response went to my spam folder & said:
“Attention C-list User,
My name is Cliff Halliday, Chief executive officer of Craigslist. We have recently partnered up with The apple company regarding a one-time promotional event today, we are giving away no cost Apple iPads to randomly selected individuals who have submitted an ad on Craigslist. You have been selected as one of our most recent winners for today. We randomly select numbers to match up with ads on Cl and your ad matched with our latest drawing.
We have partnered up with Apple to advertise their hottest product yet, the Apple iPad. Once again, we are operating this campaign for one-day only. All you need to do is CLICK HERE to go to our web site made for this promotion and key in your email to obtain yours for free. Simply make sure you enter your email so we may locate our records to make certain that we have reserved one for you. That is it!
Congratulations on winning a free Apple iPad (valued at $800). In case you have any query or concerns, feel free to e-mail me back. However, you should claim your free iPad first to ensure one will be reserved for you before the deadline ends. We do understand that you may not receive this email until after the deadline, but, we suggest you check the website and enter your email to see if we still have got yours on hold, which we often-times do because others haven’t claimed theirs in time.
Cliff Halliday
CEO, Craig’s list”
The email came from: vialzyic@hotmail.com
I received two emails from “Cliff Halliday” today = exactly the same pattern (and identical text in the 2nd message) as SurgeFM.com reports above. Thank you to everyone for making this information on scams so easy to find!
I received an email today and not only did it indeed say that it was from Cliff Halliday it also at the very bottom left a number of a guy named Jerry with a number of
971-240-0894 and the email was from kuoko2014@hotmail.com. It was saying the same crap as everyone else has gotten. Get the ipad free (valued at $800) if you hurry up and click on the link NOW!! LOL!! Such a crock! These idiots need to get a life and a job!!!!!!! (a REAL job that is)
Received an email from Cliff Halliday (Grunerytf@hotmail.com).
“Cliff Halliday”
message responding to a CL rental property ad, “do you have tecch support?”. I foolishly replied. Fortunately my email address was created for CL ads only. I recommend this to other CL users.
the “Cliff Halliday” email address didn’t show … it was “WordStoke” at hotmail
Cliff Halliday…. EnnalsSiss@hotmail.com
Wow, this is what he responded to me “Cwan you meet up with me shortly? “
got one from cliff halliday crayfinnera@hotmail.com
says: aree you currently occupied?
I got one too! It says “i do noot fully grasp?” and nothing else, thanks for putting this post up to explain ol’ Cliff Halliday…
The official sender address is
Why does he always spell one word with a typo? (rhetorical)
I am getting spammed by Cliff Halliday also as I am a Realtor in New England and the only Cliff I can find on Facebook is some nice guy in England — and why would he be concerned with my Listings?
Cliff Halliday = StroutFooter@hotmail.com
text = What’s the ikdeal time to contact?
BTW we get a lot of great renters for our beach condo from CL but the spam does come a knockin’ from time to time
just got an email from Cliff Halliday using this address:
kungtzupou500000 at hotmail.com
text:
Whko can respond to my question?
thanks for posting this! i almost responded!
The Spammer has sent me several emails… current email
Cliff Halliday
This Spammer has sent me several emails..
From: Cliff Halliday -herrpicken368 at hotmail.com
Blocking responding CL user Cliff Halliday as we speak. Idiot! Asked for my skyppe account. Who in their right mind would give that info to a complete stranger?!!
Thanks for the blog.
The e-mail address they sent responding to my room for rent ad was –
loho0409@hotmail.com
I’m in Hawaii and posted a job listing for female models the other day and just got contacted by “Cliff” using the email address tsounien0812@hotmail.com
his response was “Precisfely what time is good for meet?”
seems like a Nigerian scammer by the broken english one line emails
Just got an email from Cliff Halliday. He used the address:
leimanhui11@hotmail.com
Just got an email from Cliff Halliday at i2024weii@hotmail.com.
I got this too today with different email yingweiling398@hotmail.com of Cliff Haliday…. Similar email with IPad winner.
got this from: vokar2013@hotmail.com
Got a message From Cliff Halliday email address hsiaoi66@hotmail.com
This person needs to get a life
Attention Cl User,
My name is Cliff Halliday, Ceo of Craigslist. We have recently partnered up with Apple for a one-time promotional event today, we are giving away no cost Apple iPads to randomly selected people who have posted an ad on Craigslist. You have been picked as one of our latest winners for today. We randomly choose numbers to match up with ads on Craigslist and your ad matched with our latest drawing.
We have partnered up with Apple inc to advertise their most popular product yet, the Apple iPad. Once yet again, we are operating this campaign for one-day only. All you need to do is CLICK HERE to go to our site made for this promotion and key in your email to get yours for free. Simply make sure you enter your email so we can locate our records to make certain that we have reserved one for you. That’s it!
Congratulations on winning a free Apple iPad (valued at $800). In case you have any query or concerns, feel free to email me back. However, you need to claim your free iPad first to ensure one will be set-aside for you before the deadline ends. We do understand that you may well not receive this email until after the deadline, but, we advise you check the site and enter your email to see if we still have got yours on hold, which we often-times do because others haven’t claimed theirs in time.
Cliff Halliday
CEO, C-list
RECEIVED THIS IN REPLY TO CRAIG’S LIST POSTING (apartments for rent)
Cliff Halliday asking to meet – (mispelled – unfortunately I replied) but no reply back.
Received an e-mail from Cliff Halliday [chengiwei0411@hotmail.com] today asking “exactly why is thtis here? ” I did not note this e-mail in any of the earlier post so thought I’d add it to the list.
Wow, incredible stuff. Thanks everybody. Here’s one more:
Cliff Halliday
From yulinghuiir@hotmail.com
“He” wrote:
Can I ccommunicate to you personally?
Got this today:
from Cliff Halliday
to
date Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 4:47 PM
Can we meet in compangy?
The person used chungpo288hsi@hotmail.com as the email.
A Cliff Halliday responded to my Craigslist real estate ad. Message was: ” Can we meet at your waorkplace” . His email dysic098@hotmail.com .
From our fried Cliff, @costeword08@hotmail.com
Answer to my posting for a apartment for rent: “Would you mind if I wander iqn?”
Next ther was this message: From him @yu2049pochen@hotmail.com
Attention Craigslist User,
My name is Cliff Halliday, Chief executive officer of Craigslist. We have recently joined up with Apple mackintosh for a one-time promotional event today, we are giving away no cost Apple iPads to randomly selected individuals who have posted an advert on Craigslist. You have been picked as one of our newest winners for today. We randomly choose numbers to match up with ads on Craig’s list and your ad matched with our latest drawing.
We have partnered up with Apple to advertise their most popular product yet, the Apple iPad. Once again, we are running this campaign for one-day only. All you need to do is CLICK HERE to go to our website made for this promotion and key in your email to get yours for free. Simply make sure you enter your email so we may locate our records to make certain that we have reserved one for you. That’s it!
Congrats on winning a free Apple iPad (valued at $800). In case you have any question or concerns, feel free to e-mail me back. However, you need to claim your free iPad first to ensure one will be set-aside for you before the deadline ends. We do understand that you may possibly not receive this email until after the deadline, but, we advise you check the site and enter your email to see if we still have got yours on hold, which we often-times do because others have not claimed theirs in time.
Cliff Halliday
CEO, C-list
{ORIGINALBODY}
Also received a “Cliff Halliday” response to my CL posting for a vacation rental home.
“Are you travelling currenctly? ” a bit odd to say the least. Using yet again another email address nonanthroing2030@hotmail.com
cheers!
I just got a Craigslist response from Cliff Halliday [mailto:mainlandfresh0709@hotmail.com] . Unfortunately I replied BEFORE I checked here.
Got an e-mail from Cliff Halliday at ziabarranco298@hotmail.com. The message (misspellings and all):
“Exuactly why are there so numerous numbers on your advertisement?”
This was in response to an apartment vacancy advertisement.
I also received an email inquiry from Cliff Halliday. The email he used for mine was
tangwu2047@hotmail.com and his email just asked “how to request for this”? mine was in response to a vacation rental.
I also received an email inquiry from Cliff Halliday responding to a house for rent on Craigs List. The email he used for mine was yutzu2019kai@hotmail.com
The spam continues…
Second one I have received from Cliff Halliday. Todays email addy was yu28yung@hotmail.com, and I won the free IPod! lol
cliff halliday emailed me today on a listing for sale on craigslist…. he sent his email from wolfmandmd@hotmail.com
I got an email from Cliff Halliday off craigslist, too:
KrawiecPo@hotmail.com
Today January 6 I received one from Cliff Haliday and his email is now
BlockerCaff@hotmail.com
I got an email from Cliff Halliday today using this address:
AraujoKubic@hotmail.com
He wrote:
i donst fully grasp?
got one from cliff 10 minutes ago and immediately did a search and found your site
Cliff Halliday – sogalede@hotmail.com
text – “ansy specific conditions?”
i also just received a email in response to a house listed on CL from Cliff Halliday email used was tytlersyf@hotmail.com.
From: Cliff Halliday (Locklearuad@hotmail.com)
Sent: Thu 1/06/11 11:24 AM
To: hous-p45eb-2146185690@craigslist.org
Cliff Halliday:
msg was “What’s your location codge? ” WTF is that? No way am I giving out a location.
Received a Cliff Halliday email today (one day after posting on CL). He’s changing up his email address. Wanted to know if it was OK to ‘text’ me.
Vollerldi@hotmail.com
Seems ‘Cliff’ is a busy guy!
nonmition488@hotmail.com & WeinbachL@hotmail.com sent 1/6/11 Cliff Halliday CEO of craigslist offering $800
I posted a rental yesterday and today get an e-mail asking for my fax. What for? I got a listing, you don’t need my fax…so I get another e-mail different address, same name saying he is CEO of Craigslist. I erased them before I saw this thread, but anything w/his name is obviously crap.
Probably the scamer person that keeps calling me from/through a Pine Bluff, AK number.
Email:
Attention C-list User,
My name is Cliff Halliday, Chief executive officer of Craigslist. We have recently partnered up with a major company regarding a one-time promotional event today, we are giving away no cost free coupons to randomly selected people who have published an ad on Craigslist. You have been selected as one of our latest winners for today. We randomly choose numbers to match up with ads on Craig’s list and your advertisement matched with our latest drawing.
Once again, we are operating this promotion for one-day only. All you need to do is CLICK HERE to check out our website made for this promotion and get your coupon for free. Simply make sure you register so we may locate our records to make certain that we have reserved one for you. That is it!
Congratulations on being selected as the winner (valued at $800). In case you have any question or concerns, feel free to e-mail me back. However, you should claim your prize first to ensure one will be set-aside for you before the deadline ends. We do understand that you may well not receive this e-mail until after the deadline, but, we advise you check the web site and register to see if we still have yours on hold, which we often-times do because others have not claimed theirs in time.
Cliff Halliday
CEO, Craigslist
I feel sorry for anyone actually named Cliff Halliday who is genuinely a bad speller and wants to buy something on craigslist.
This is the email address I got from a Cliff Halliday bot responding to my posting:
niussuwei0804@hotmail.com
I got an email from Cliff Halliday responding to my craigslist ad on 12/30/10. The reply to email address was listed as: jacobignj@hotmail.com
The email contained a perplexing message, nonetheless it’s definitely spam!
Cliff Halliday (FioriBonner1@hotmail.com)
this was his message
Can I confirm on the telepshone?
Received one today in response to Craigslist ad.
Cliff Halliday
“Exactly where do you cgome from?”
Another one: Spareuzl@hotmail.com
I’ve gotten two today
retrosimilful88 at hotmail.com
antzu0302 at hotmail.com
I received an email from Cliff Halliday and immediately was suspicious ……”dont you thhink this is dangerous”…was the message. I did not respond and deleted it right away. Wish there was a way to get rid of these foreign spammers….Nigeria for one.
Also got an inquiry from Cliff Halliday in response to a CL ad. Came from duceer999911@hotmail.com
Many thanks to you for starting this thread so we can verify its a fake.
barbuero550@hotmail.com
Got the same question answering a real estate ad I placed, “are you listed on myspace?”, and then found an item from him in my spam folder with that same item posted above about being the CEO of Craigslist, and with the whole “free iPad” littany.
How long does this clown do this?
Thanks for the updates.
got one from this e-mail <HoonKimpton1@hotmail.com
I got one with these weird words on the bottom and i translated with google translate it was some weird African language that has something to do with weight
Got the same email saying that he was Craigslists’ CEO and that we had won an Ipad. the emaill address he used was Angel Thomas”
Angel Thomas”
I occasionally post on craigslist properties that I have available for lease. I received a call from a tenant, that tons of people were coming to the home they were leasing. The people were saying they saw an ad on Craigslist advertising the home for less than half the market value! I did not have any ads placed at that time, as I had nothing available.
I checked the Craigslist ads and saw that “Cliff Halliday” was advertising the property with my photos!!! I immediately reported this to Craigslist. However, the ad drew such crowds that I had to post a huge sign proclaiming the “Craigslist ad was a SCAM, Do Not Trespass.” This “Cliff Halliday” was certainly persistent. I had to keep checking every couple of days because he would repost the ad and I would again have to report it to Craigslist. You would think Craigslist would not accept any more ads from this person after he was reported the first time!